Comparisons

Nissan Titan Diesel Gets Ram 1500 EcoDiesel’s Sloppy Seconds

Comparisons
@meisejohn

John is a full-time automotive blogger who digs cars, but also spends a disturbing amount of time watching and reading about movies. His first car was a maroon 1993 Buick Skylark which, after a solid seven-year run, was laid to rest in August of 2013.

2014 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel vs 2015 Nissan Titan Diesel

2014 is expected to be a big year for diesel-equipped pickups, and two of the most talked-about vehicles right now are the 2014 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel and the 2015 Nissan Titan Diesel, both of which are set to be released within the next couple of months.

Much of the buzz about the pickups surrounds the 5.0-liter Cummins diesel engine that will be found under the hood of the Nissan Titan. Yes, you read that right—a Cummins in a Nissan.

Read More: 2016 Nissan Titan Reveal Was Not The Event We Wanted It To Be

For decades, Cummins engines have been exclusive to Ram pickups, but the diesel engine that Cummins produced for the 1500 was completely shot down by Ram. Apparently the automaker was looking for a highway fuel economy rating of no less than 26 mpg, and the Cummins Diesel was only able to return around 24. So, for the first time ever, Cummins was forced to find another buyer—and Nissan jumped on the chance to take the engine off their hands.

The real question is: did Ram make the right choice by turning down the hefty V8? Let’s take a look.

Ram 1500 EcoDiesel vs Nissan Titan Diesel

 2014 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel2015 Nissan Titan Diesel
Engine3.0-liter V65.0-liter V8
Horsepower240300
Torque420500
Highway Fuel Economy28 mpg24 mpg
2015-nissan-titan-diesel-cummins-v8

The 2015 Nissan Titan Diesel

Before we get to the nitty gritty, I just want to take a second to acknowledge the numbers on the table above. Those outputs and fuel economy ratings are just some of the many reasons that I’m totally digging all the news about the push for more diesel engines in the states. Light-duty pickups pumping out 500 lb-ft of torque is just astounding.

But I digress.

One quick look at the specs shows that the 1500’s V6 is more fuel efficient and the Titan’s V8 is more powerful. However, the EcoDiesel’s output really isn’t too far off from that of the Cummins engine. I know I just said that I’m jacked on the Cummins’ 500 lb-ft of torque, but at the same time I have to wonder if it’s really necessary to go that big. I feel like the EcoDiesel’s 420 lb-ft of torque is more than adequate.

Now it’s worth noting that the 24 mpg rating listed for the Cummins V8 is just an estimate. As I said earlier, Ram ran tests on the engine and found that it wasn’t able to return any more than 24 mpg, so I’m just going to go ahead and assume that EPA tests will return a similar figure. Either way, as a V8, it’s not likely that it’s ever going to come close to the 28 mpg rating of the EcoDiesel V6.

When considering both of the engines’ outputs and fuel economy ratings, I have to say that the EcoDiesel engine of the Ram 1500 seems to be the better of the two options. It may not be as powerful as the Cummins V8, but you can’t really deny that impressive fuel efficiency. Plus, like I said, for a pickup that is—or at least once was—considered to be light duty, its output seems undoubtedly sufficient.

Winner of the CarDebate: 2014 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel

2014-ram-1500-ecodiesel-v6

The 2014 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel

Truck enthusiasts who get hard-ons over pure unadulterated power may find that the Cummins V8 in the Titan Diesel is the better of the two engines, but those looking for a capable and efficient all-around engine are sure to find that the 2014 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel’s V6 is the better of the two options.

This does not mean that all hope is lost for Nissan, however. There is definitely a market for a V8-equipped light-duty pickup, and Nissan is likely to discover new-found success with the Titan Diesel. For the past couple of years, sales numbers for the Titan have been far from impressive, and the Cummins V8 has some serious potential to change that, but it’s just not for me.

The one aspect of the Cummins Turbo Diesel V8 that I’m most excited about is what it means for the future. As Nissan just unveiled their diesel-powered Nissan Frontier concept, now the second Cummins-powered Nissan, it’s clear that the Nissan and Cummins partnership will be an ongoing thing, and I’m looking forward to watching that evolve.

View Comments (95)

95 Comments

  1. Bruce K

    Apr 4, 2014 at 7:33 am

    John: Your numbers are a good bit off with the Cummins. Horsepower is probably going to be in the 275 range and torque is reported to be 560 lb-ft. That’s 33% more torque than Dodge’s engine. 24 mpg sounds about right. The big question for me is what is Nissan (also reportedly Toyota) going to do with towing capacity. My guess is both manufacturers are going to emphasize towing capacity over fuel economy. My guess is we will see towing capacities of 12,000 pounds and up.

    Since the majority of pickup truck owners don’t tow anything of significant weight, I can’t help but agree with your analysis. Why not go with the truck that gets the most MPGs? The problem with logic and human beings is that the two don’t always get along so well. Some people make purchases based on capabilities based not on what they will most likely do with a product, but what they might be able to do with a product.

    Finally: Cummins has achieved a level of brand recognition and respect on its own. More than anything, truck purchasers are probably looking at reliability with a very high degree of concern. Putting the Cummins name plate on your truck is going to command a certain level respect that is going to be hard to beat.

    • Daniel

      Jul 19, 2014 at 10:17 pm

      Correct me if I’m wrong… but the VM 3.0L was designed to be put into the Cadillac, problem was in 2007-2008 GM tanked and lost the engine to Chrystler. The 3.0 has been in Jeep for two years now, and has just been put into the Ram 1500 for the first time. It was released with HW MPG rating of 31, through actual use people have been getting 40MPG out of the 3.0… Ram has since changed the rating, some dealers too, though if you look at different dealers some will say 31, others say 40, as the evidence of it getting 40 is somewhat new and the updates haven’t been made at all dealers.

      In no way will the 5.0L cummings in a nissan come close to this number. At best if you chipped the cummings to be more fuel efficient (yes restrict it, but who would do that?!) if you chipped it to be more fuel efficient, it still wouldn’t get anything better than 24MPG.

      So I’m pretty much sold on the eco diesel as the winner for a guy that wants a full sized truck that I can a few weeks of towing with a year. However I do hold a reserve… I have no idea how many clicks on the odometer I’m going to get with a 3.0 running with loads in it or not. If treated correctly and driven like a commuting driver not a race driver, then I would expect 300,000 km before major problems. Maybe even 500k like the old toyota rl22 or old cummings use to get, but with far superior fuel economy.

      Reading through these posts the most insightful comment about the nissan was about the transmission. Cummings diesels have chewed the living crap out of transmissions for years, if you didn’t already know that and you claim to know anything about trucks then I’m sorry, you don’t.

      So my point is there are at least two major concerns about these two trucks, dependability over time. Ram might have the engine die before it’s time, Nissan might need a new transmission every 60,000 Miles / 100,000 km’s.

      Knowing the warranty of Ram and the type of driver I am, I’m going to have to say that I’ll either be buying a 2014 eco diesel or 2015.

      Another point I’d like to back up is about towing ratings… if you are towing anything over 6000lbs on a daily basis you shouldn’t even be considering a 1/2 ton.

      Lastly I’d like to say “I’m sorry to hear that” to the guy that said he has a ford eco boost. Maybe it’s good for you, but not me.

      Diesels experience:

      2500 cummings
      550 power stroke
      2500 duramax
      kentucky ford in an international 4300
      3500 cummings

      By far the best I”ve had is a cummings, but that was from an engine years ago before cummings motor company was bought by ford.

      Probably lose in a race to the guys with the Nissan. But I win in life.

      • CUMMINS

        Jul 28, 2014 at 7:01 pm

        Did you really have Cummings engines?

      • Don

        Jul 29, 2014 at 2:23 am

        Cummins……not Cummings! Ford does not and has NEVER owned Cummins. They purchased a small share of the company and sold long before having a viable stake in the business. Do your homework and stop reading rags like diesel power and 8 lug.

      • Mike

        Jul 29, 2014 at 6:54 pm

        Wow. It’s Cummins, not “cummings”. Let’s give credit where it is due. Thanks. Incidentally, it would have said it in big letters on all the trucks you have owned with that engine in it.

      • Shawn

        Aug 7, 2014 at 5:15 pm

        Your argument is invalidated because of you lack of brand knowledge.

      • phil

        Aug 23, 2014 at 12:02 pm

        Cummins eat transmission? If you don’t know that you’re an idiot? It’s not the Cummins that eats it it’s the junk transmission dodge put behind it. And Ford does not own Cummins or Cummings in your case.

        • Cecil

          May 2, 2015 at 12:04 pm

          You said it. Dodge has and still does make crap trannies. It’s the torque in the diesel that kills the transmissions. That’s why Ford & Dodge downgrade the power on the 3/4 tons diesel engines to avoid killing the trannies. Chevy, using the Allison trannie has no such problems and will out pull both the Dodge/Ford 3/4 tons.
          My worry with the Dodge 1500 will be the torqueflite transmission they are using. Never mind the fact Dodge is not exactly stellar at keeping the COO (Cost of Ownership) low. That is the real cost of owning a vehicle, not the monthly payment.
          On the other hand, the Nissan is a brand new truck that will, no doubt, be plagued by the 1st year bugs and problems that come with it. Best to wait a year to see how Nissan does.
          Dodge; let’s wait and see if the reliability is there for the next year as well.

          • Jug

            Aug 3, 2015 at 12:49 am

            Again, it doesn’t use the Dodge Torqueflite tranny!

            The Ecodiesel uses a German made, bullet proof ZF transmission!

            They just still use the old moniker.
            Personally, I think that they should have dropped it!

      • Roger

        Aug 31, 2014 at 1:16 pm

        There’s more to fuel economy than displacement…

        A 3.0L in a jeep vs a ram is apples and oranges. Weight, valve timing/opening clearance, fuel injectors etc etc. GFL getting 30mpg in a ram…

        As for reliability… Cummins will outlast the 3.0L, and in larger rams with Cummins, the only downside to owning the best diesel is that it was wrapped up in the worst truck!

      • JD

        Dec 26, 2014 at 10:43 pm

        40 mpg from the 3.0L Eco Diesel??? I think you were probably looking at European numbers (using imperial gallons, not US gallons; 1 US gallon ~ 0.833 Imperial gallons). It seems to be a great motor, and I am not bashing it at all; too the contrary, it seems to be a great package, but I am fairly certain no one is getting 40 (US) mpg out of this engine. When the Autoblog staff took a ‘professional’ “hyper-miler” in this truck, the best they managed was 38 mpg (US). If you convert this to Imperial gallons, you get about 45.6 mpg (Imp). Still very impressive, but when you are speaking of ‘mpg’, you need to clarify units. 40 mpg (Imp) equates to about 33.3 mpg (US), which is still very impressive if true. I would think that this is the more likely value people are actually getting out of this engine.

        If you can find someone who can verify 40 mpg (US), then I will stand corrected, but I am doubtful you can find even one, let alone multiple people who can get this mileage out of this engine (in a Jeep GC, or the Ram 1500).

    • al

      Apr 24, 2015 at 12:10 am

      agree; want vs need.

      Based on my observations of the number and types of trucks on the road, the great majority are empty, used as grocery getters. For this vast majority, imho they will balance between the need mpg and the odd time they really do need a truck. For this group, I imagine the Ram 1500 will suit them well. My difficulty with the Ram brand is reliability and resale value: both are low.

      The situation changes dramatically in real life when a real truck is needed for daily use: such as towing a 7000# trailer every week for say 500 miles or so. For this situation, the Ram has good specs, but the actual results are far less. For real hauling, the mpg is way below 28, and closer to 14 mpg, and the engine works hard. The strain on the frame and tranny is great. Ram is not famous for its tranny, but this new one could be better. Ram is not famous for reliability, So we must wait a few years to assess this adequately.

      But for the group that really needs and wants a real truck, I imagine this new Nissan will win sales quickly. Cummins is a great brand. I would expect in real-life towing the mpg will be close to 14mpg, and with much less strain on the engine than the Ram’s. Also, the Aisin tranny is one of the best; Aisin is the world’s largest tranny manufacturer, and all top brands use them. The Nissan frame is likely stronger than the Ram, judging by the payload and towing specs. In all, for about the same purchase price and the same mpg in real-life real-truck use, the Nissan may prove to be the better truck. The Nissan brand has much better reputation for reliability and resale.

      The Ram has a few more features, but as options; such as towing, air suspension, and creature comforts. Nissan could easily offer these as add-ons, and buyers could use after-market parts also. Neither offer exhaust brake as standard or option, which is a sore point for me. The Cummins could likely perform well with exhaust brake, but I expect the Ram V6 may be too small to be effective.

      So, we must wait a few years to assess the performance, and see which truck really does perform best as a truck. My hunch is the Nissan will be the better brand overall for capability, reliability, resale, lower overall cost of ownership. let’s see!

    • Jeremy Dwyer

      Jan 21, 2017 at 2:00 pm

      agreed. I bought a 2015 Ecodiesel an love it. best truck I’ve ever had hands down. I averaged 30 MPG driving it from Texas to WA. Can’t beat that in a truck.

      The thing about common sense is that it really isn’t that common.

  2. Bob

    Apr 15, 2014 at 12:48 am

    Both wrong! 18,000 pounds pulling 30 mpg for the nissan. Fiat bought dodge out of bankruptcy. Fiat wanted one of their Italian engines in them. Cummins contacted nissan after the nissan dodge deal fell through. The nissan will be a game changer. That’s why Toyota has bought into the engine for 16

    • Anonymous

      May 18, 2014 at 9:07 pm

      18,000 lbs. pulling is 3/4 ton land.

      • JoBlow

        Dec 11, 2014 at 9:19 pm

        Right Anonymous at 18K better do it with a 3/4 or 1 ton pick up. First intelligent comment.

  3. Jeff

    Apr 16, 2014 at 5:53 pm

    The big question is what will the aftermarket tuners do with increased torque in power mode and how much additional millage can they get in econo mode. Gale Banks has lots of working time with the 3.0 and I’m sure he will have a programmer for the 5.0 too so that is when things will get exciting. I feel that if Banks, Bully Dog…whatever can get the 3.0 to 530 ft/lbs of torque and also get it to pull 30 mpg in econo mode with a light foot then it will be the winner.

  4. Lonnie

    Apr 17, 2014 at 8:49 pm

    Bob, 18000 & 30 mpg? You’re cracking me up. Let’s face it if you’re buying a half ton pickup you have no business towing anything over 10000 lbs anyway. The fact that both of these trucks can manage that is a push and the mpg becomes the ultimate consideration. I would expect the Cummins to get somewhere around 15 when it’s actually towing and the Dodge to get about 22 or so but only time will tell for certain.

    • Ed

      Jun 20, 2014 at 9:14 am

      Lonnie, My existing Titan pulls 7000 lbs at about 9 mpg. While empty it gets about 15 mpg. I’m thinking pulling the same load w/ the diesel version of the Titan, it will get around 20 mpg. I think the dodge version will have to work harder because it just doesn’t have the same power thus putting its mpg lower then then the Titan at the same weight.

  5. scott

    Apr 19, 2014 at 11:58 pm

    As a Dodge owner I am disappointed that they picked a diesel motor other than cummins. I like my Dodge truck but I love the cummins motor period. I plan on test driving a new Titan once its been released and if I like it as much as I think I will I will probably but one! Shame on Dodge Cummins basically saved their light truck division back in 89 I bet that they will regret their choice in motors!!!

    • Lane

      Jun 19, 2014 at 11:35 am

      Dodge still offers Cummins motors in the 2500/3500/4500/5500 trucks. The only Ram that doesn’t have a Cummins option is the 1500.

    • Martin Semien

      Sep 6, 2014 at 4:57 pm

      You are missing out, then. I have only owned my Ram 1500 Eco-Diesel for a little over a week and love it; getting in the 27-28mpg range on average. Very quiet engine, but with that needed diesel rattle.

      • john

        Jan 12, 2015 at 9:54 am

        Martin what did you pay for the new Dodge with rebates?

      • Cecil

        May 2, 2015 at 12:20 pm

        Let’s hear back from you when the warranty runs out and you start paying for repairs!
        I suspect the COO will kill you.

        With my company discount, I can get a $54,000 Ram 1500 diesel for $34,000. I LOVE diesels but have not bought because I have no trust in Dodge’s reliability as of yet.

        Just go to Google and search on ‘Dodge 1500 diesel problems’ and see what pops up.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb48YM3vH5E

  6. Brook

    Apr 24, 2014 at 1:12 pm

    Well, my experience is that just because you get better gas mileage under normal driving, doesn’t mean you will towing, so I have a feeling the numbers would likely be reversed from what Lonnie is saying. As an example, I have a F150 with ecoboost that EPA 21 mpg hwy…well guess what I get pulling a 6,000 lb load. 8.1 mpg. I had a v8 Titan that got EPA 17 mpg on hwy…well guess what I got pulling that same 6000 lb load. 9.0 mpg.

    The problem will be that that little 3.0 L will be spooling the crap out of the turbos when hauling a decently sized load, whereas the 5.0 cummins will take far less boost to achieve the same speeds, and therefore probably use less fuel.

    One other note, how could you ever go for a 3.0L diesel that hasn’t even been proven long term in comparison to such a well known engine manufacturer that is in most ppls opinion’s the leader of diesels?

    Have you all even thought about the fact that the 3.0 is likely running more boost to achieve the numbers it gets HP/TQ wise? Therefore if you were to put a programmer on it, there isn’t as much room for improvement? Can it even handle that much reliably when you do tune it? I know the Cummins will, and it will probably put out monstrous numbers in comparison after it is tuned.

    Sure you don’t NEED the torque for hauling the loads that will be hauled, but it sure is nice to haul some a$$ with that torque and HP.

    Something to think about…

    • Brian

      Apr 24, 2014 at 7:18 pm

      Book- I have had the same experiences with my trucks in the past. I have had V6 and I6 models that offer comparable power to the V8 models I have owned. Simple physics with displacement has not changed. My big block V8’s although always thirsty, were not under as much strain when accomplishing the same task, and gas mileage didn’t change much. I could keep the RPMs low and stay in the low torque ban.
      To put it all to rest, Nissan and Toyota will not be offering 3/4 ton or 1ton models. The 1/2 ton market is the main vein of consumer trucks. For those needing a truck to haul and accomplish work more often or daily will find a bigger stronger power train found in the Nissan/Toyota will be more efficient and a little bit more effective. Not to mention will suffer from less wear and require less maintenance. However if you simply use your truck as a commuter that hauls a boat or camper from time to time a small displacement that is efficient on its own, but carries the capability to do the work from time to time, will be better choice. Personally I like the idea of being able to haul my car carrier (the heaviest thing Ill haul 12000lbs max loaded) and my family and equipment all at once. To accomplish this without having to step up the a heavier 3/4 for cross country commutes is great for my own situation. If Nissan and Toyota wont dance with the heavy duty, they better build some hard core 1/2ton trucks.

    • Anonymous

      Jun 21, 2014 at 2:13 pm

      That fiat motor has been proven long term. Its been in europe for years….

      • Cecil

        May 2, 2015 at 12:26 pm

        It’s not the motor that’s the issue. It’s wrapped in a Dodge body! Gold ring in a pig’s snout.
        Sorry…

  7. Arlan Howard

    May 5, 2014 at 5:09 pm

    Hi I know that the information on towing capacity has not given out yet. But wonder if you have any idea how much the 2015 Titan V-8 diesel crew cab can tow. I am hoping it would be approx. 12k. I would buy the truck fast. nice and very fine truck.

  8. That Guy

    May 15, 2014 at 11:48 am

    You guys are all jerks

  9. I don't know

    May 15, 2014 at 5:37 pm

    V8 vs v6. My guess is the Cummins will be more reliable. Also being a v8 they might have a highway mod that shouts some of the chambers down

  10. the dude

    May 18, 2014 at 6:01 am

    I thought both engines were cummin’s.

    • Lane

      Jun 19, 2014 at 11:37 am

      Dodge is using a VM Motori diesel in their EcoDiesel 1500. The Cummins that we all know and love is still offered in the 2500/3500/4500/5500 Ram.

  11. Ed

    May 27, 2014 at 8:17 am

    The major problem with the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel is the very low payload capacity. The payload capacity is among the lowest of any 1/2 ton truck and really limits any real truck capabilities. Yes if one purchases a pick-up truck to just drive around in and to never really use it as a truck – it is fine. All Nissan has to do or even the new Ford F150 is to have a payload at least 500 lbs. higher and even with a lower mpg those that use a pick-up truck as a truck will take the Ram EcoDiesel out of consideration. That will be more than enough folks to make the Nissan Titan a worthy alternative and a success

  12. Ed

    May 27, 2014 at 8:25 am

    The major problem for anyone that uses a pick-up truck as a truck are the very low payload weight capacity numbers for the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel. They are at the very bottom for a 1/2 ton pick-up. Fine if one uses a pick-up only to drive around in but not good enough for anyone that intends to use it as a truck. All the Nissan Titan diesel has to do is have a payload at least 500 lbs. higher and those that need a truck to use as a truck will not even consider the 1500 EcoDiesel. That will be more than enough folks to make the Titan diesel a needed alternative and a success – even if it is rated 4 mpg less on the highway.

  13. Al

    May 29, 2014 at 2:34 pm

    any news on the cummin’s 4 cylinder engine?

    • K.W.

      Sep 8, 2014 at 1:01 pm

      If you are talking about cummin’s new 2.4L inline 4, it will be an option in the NIssan Frontier coming 2015-2016ish.

      • Dickie

        Jan 4, 2015 at 6:23 am

        2.8

  14. Horatio

    May 31, 2014 at 11:45 am

    Currently drive an ’07 3/4ton, long-bed Ram with a 5.9 Cummins. After I retired, needed something to do to stay busy, so bought the Ram and knocked around Texas, hot shotting (but, it still looks new and gets compliments, every day, ’cause I didn’t tow with it, stayed out of pipe yards, and was, generally, just fanatical about keeping it well maintained and clean, but now, all I use if for is to carry some shifter karts). 250k miles, and still see 22-24mpg at 60-65! I do love that 5.9! In fact, I love my Dodge, in general. But, I’m also excited about the new light duty diesels,… just too many unknowns, right now, for me to figure out which is “best”. For those of you with distinct needs, ie., more towing capacity, or higher mpg, you’re lucky,… your choice between the Ram and the Nissan will, most likely, be easier. For me to give up my current truck, though, I’m gonna have to have faith in any new trucks’ reliability, since towing capacity isn’t a huge issue with me, mpg,… a little more so, although a 4 mpg difference won’t be enough to offset any perceived reliability differences between the VM6 (yeah,… some good press, already, and Gale Banks says they’re stout and capable of making some very good power, if that’s your thing) or the Cummins 5.0 (still an unknow,… the 5.9 is a honey, but the later 6.7s still have their share of issues), so I’m really on the fence, right now. Both trucks offer good looks, in their own way, but think I like the Dodge interiors (I’m married, so, yeah, the interior’s gonna matter, a lot). Also, I like the new 8-speed autos (my BMW’s is pure magic,… if Dodge even comes “close” to that box, then, badda bing, badda boom! Don’t know what Nissan will put behind the Cummins.). And,… Dodge, at least in my estimation, has a long history of building some stout trucks,… Nissan,… not too sure. (But, man! That 5.0 Cummins does “call my name”!) So,… as of this moment, I see the tote board swaying toward the Dodge (for me, anyway). Still want to see some road tests, here from some of the mags, and, of course, test drive each truck. Let’s all just pop open a brewsky and thank the Good Lord that we’ve got such tough decisions to make! Ain’t Life a kick in the pants?

  15. Anonymous

    Jun 3, 2014 at 9:10 pm

    Look at a 04 titan and 04 ram with 100k on them and what would you rather drive. Now think of 2014 titan and ram. Nissan just makes a better stronger more reliable truck. Now put a name like Cummins in the mix and you have a truck that would be unstoppable in the 1500 class. I just don’t see any debate here. Dodge makes junk and the only thing they had going for them was Cummins. Now they have nothing and nissan has it all. I own an 04 titan with almost 200k and when this truck hits the showroom I will be first in line.

    • Jimbo

      Aug 9, 2014 at 10:19 pm

      Ditto!!! My 04 Titan has been flawless. 04 is the Inception, 2015 should be a astonishing!

    • Brent

      Sep 17, 2014 at 12:27 pm

      All the 04-08 titans are diasters. Post 08 are less of a disaster, but still a mess.
      Light duty axles, both front and rear, horrible gear ratios makes them a ticking time bomb.
      The vk56 is good, so is the trans, but no better than the hemi/5-45rfe combo
      Only thing on the 04 titan that is better than the 04 ram is crew cab option

      Unless nissan improves the axles, and torque management, the little cummins is going to expose their weakness even quicker than the 5.6 did.

      • AXLES?

        Oct 21, 2014 at 12:10 pm

        Don’t the Nissan trucks run Dana axles?

        • Anonymous

          Nov 20, 2014 at 12:22 pm

          YES THEY DO

        • Brent

          Jan 13, 2015 at 8:26 am

          So what if they’re Dana axles? Their failure rate is 10 times anyone else’s. The ring gear size is an inch too small. A vent that doesn’t work, and in the front,the carrier is supported with aluminum caps.
          Don’t believe me, search for yourself.

          • Robert

            Feb 9, 2015 at 11:35 am

            Brent, the rear end you are referring to is in the 04-07 models. ’08 and after they beefed up the rear ends ever so slightly. I drive ’07 pull the shit out of 7,500 lbs trailer with 35 inch tires and a six inch lift. I’ve beat the living shit out of my truck since day one and I’ve never had any of the differential problems that many people report. I take care of my truck and I actually did the vent mod before the seals ever busted. The cooling for the rear dif was one of the reasons the rear end started burning up so they switched to a finned differential cover and fully synthetic 140w. But 10x the failure rate you claim probably isn’t true any more at one time it really did plague the Titan. The 2015 Titan does not have a Dana rear-end:

            NEW AXLE AND DIFFERENTIAL
            We’ve swapped out the rear end for a bigger, tougher purpose-built axle from the folks over at American Axle Manufacturing (AAM). This vital component has been proving itself for years in the workhorse lineup of Nissan Commercial vehicles…

    • JoBlow

      Dec 11, 2014 at 9:24 pm

      The problem with Titan is towing a crude oil rig in the back. I will never ever touch a Nissan car or truck in my life parts are expensive plus reliability is so-so not bad not great. By the way do you know why US create jobs in McDonald and Target think about it. (I`m Canadian)

      I will give the answer; Continue to buy expensive imported goods and creates well paying jobs in Japan Europe etc..

  16. Joe

    Jun 8, 2014 at 11:00 am

    The 3.0 has been around for a few years now- Its the Mercedes Benz engine. Its a solid engine

  17. Drew

    Jun 8, 2014 at 3:35 pm

    If I was buying today, and I’m not, I wouldn’t even look at the Dodge…and I currently own a half ton hemi. The Titan and Cummins is just a great combo…I hope.

    I personally will take performance over mileage everyday. One thing about these ratings, real world performance will not even be close to what they’re claiming so you need to overshoot it.

    My travel trailer weighs 3600lbs dry. Add in 35 gallons of water, the propane bottles and everything you need for a 14 day hunting trip and its got to be around 4000lbs. Not alot but regardless of ratings its still alot for a half ton. If I could pull that with ease and get 12mpg and have a fuel tank of at least 30 gallons I’d be happy. I REALLY hope they don’t shrink the tank size just because of increased mileage. Great thing about the Ford Supercrew is you get a 34 gallon tank.

    I just want to know what Nissan is going to do to the transmission and rear end to make sure they can handle the work load and torque the Cummins puts out.

  18. Nasty

    Jun 8, 2014 at 10:55 pm

    Everything I’ve read has the cummins at +300 hp and around 550 lb-ft for the Titan.

    As for which truck is better, it’s hard to tell considering one isn’t out yet, but the new Ram has great styling and haven’t heard a bad thing about it. I currently own a 2005 f-150 with over 150k miles and would love to swap one of these cummins 5.0l’s into it.

  19. Seth

    Jun 10, 2014 at 9:15 am

    Always amazes me,… some dude with an ’04 Titan who’s nursed it to “almost 200k” is convinced “Dodge is junk” and he “sees no debate here”, based on his assumption, I guess, that the new Cummins is gonna be, like, you know,… perfect. Dude, NO ONE KNOWS THAT, YET! Cummins built the 6.7 which, because it was, you know,… bigger and more powerful than the 5.9, just HAD to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Except,… 6.7’s are STILL routinely puking up head gaskets, probably because of head-sealing issues. (I won’t bring up the emission nightmares that plagued them, in the first several years of production,… but, I could,… if I wanted to).

    The VM engine is already in the Jeep Grand Cherokee, so there’s real world experience, road tests, etc., available, already. From what I’ve read,… a pretty civilized little engine with some stout torque. How will it translate to the truck? Don’t know. How will the new Cummins perform? Don’t know.

    I prefer to reserve judgement on either of these trucks until I see how they perform. Hope and change always sounds good, but, the proof’s always in what it actually brings to the table.

    Drew raises some interesting points, namely, what about the transmission and rear-end in the new Titan? Dodge is offering the new ZF 8-speed (sweet) and their rear-ends have never been an issue.

    • P7489AFk

      Sep 6, 2014 at 7:12 am

      Cummins didn’t introduce the 6.7 because it was “bigger and more powerful”. The 5.9 was a proven design (around since the late 1970′) that had plenty of development room left as far as power is concerned. The 6.7 was the result of Cummins’ attempt to meet stringent global emission standards using a single platform for the light truck/bus market (the 6.7 was in Europe for several years before it was introduced in the U.S.).

    • Cecil

      May 2, 2015 at 12:32 pm

      There is no ZF transmission for the Dodge – read again, it’s a torqueflite (Junk!).

      • Jug

        Aug 3, 2015 at 12:12 am

        No, it’s an 8 speed ZF, German made!
        Great, bullet proof trans.
        7500 on mine and nothing but love for it!
        Wet from ’99 F250 to 2011 ecoboost F150, (junk!), to this
        Quieter, smoother, both in riding and driving.

  20. DieselTech69

    Jun 11, 2014 at 12:14 pm

    Both trucks will be good, in their own right. Different targets means different uses, so which one will be better for the consumer depends on what they want to use it for – just like choosing a 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, or 1-ton based on use. Anyone who drives around in a 1-ton, unloaded 90% of the time, is either an idiot or has money to burn.

    I have a 2005 Nissan Titan with over 253,000 miles on it. Has been a great truck, but mileage sucks (to be expected). I tow frequently, though so far never more than about 8k. The Dodge EcoDiesel can pull that, if properly equipped, but it’s at max capacity. I know the Titan will easily pull that, as mine does now, with 1400 lbs. to spare. I’m leaning towards a new Titan, BUT, is it worth the price of admission? Will the MPG offset the cost to buy a new truck over the long term, versus keeping what I have? I can think of plenty of other things I’d like to buy….like an RV.

    These new trucks are uber-expensive (nice, sure, with touch screens and air suspension, leather, heated everything, etc.), and if I had an RV I’m not sure I’d need a pickup truck much, except the occasional run to Home Depot or something like that. Awful lot of $$$ to spend just to have something “new”. And, what about all the aftermarket “upgrades” that will need to be added, lift, tires, tonneu cover, seat covers, etc. etc.?

    As much as I WANT one, I don’t really NEED one (new truck). That is the tough choice for me, not picking the truck – that’s easy.

  21. details

    Jun 12, 2014 at 8:40 am

    The redesigned Titan isn’t due out as a 2015. In fact it is not due to be unveiled until the 2015 NYIAS. As far as is the 5.0 too big for a 1/2 ton, the rumors of a small diesel in the next gen Frontier (if true) is the answer. I understand the need for an efficient full sized truck but a lot of people buy way more truck than they actually need. Being on the more physically imposing side of the spectrum nothing makes me laugh harder than someone who doesn’t haul on a regular basis that needs a step stool to get into their bohemoth.
    I’m a Nissan fan-boy, that being said Ram’s (so far exclusive) adjustable air suspension is a brilliant feature.

  22. Mike

    Jun 12, 2014 at 2:56 pm

    You guys are all crazy, don’t compare towing milage in gas vehicles compare it to gas vs diesel, my 09 ram hemi would get 8-9 towing my current 6500lb dry camper, I now have a f250 diesel, and I get 12-13, plus my mileage is better just driving empty compared to the hemi. Also to point out here, if your halfton is rated at 12k pounds towing, that does not mean you can tow 12k lbs. you need to look at GVWR and the actual weight of your truck, subtract the 2 and theres your payload max, as an example, my 6500 lb dry camper has a tongue weight of 1080lbs without wd hitch, with wd hitch its right at 875lbs, your halfton when loaded with family and bed full of bikes, coolers and other stuff will be over weight, so the high towing capicty doesn’t mean that much, you want to tow 12k, buy a real truck not a half ton

  23. Mike R.

    Jun 18, 2014 at 12:36 pm

    Howdy,

    As a person who’s never owned a diesel, I have been reading these comparisons with interest. I don’t tow anything, but I do use my ’09 F-150 as a truck from time to time. It’s my everyday driver and I will haul the occasional load of whatever. Believe it or not, we also use it as our trip taker. It rides well, and I get in the teens in fuel mileage.

    I do plan to make my next truck a diesel. I have no brand loyalty as far as automakers go. However, I have driven for my job and have many friends who have owned the various diesel engines, and I do like the Cummins engine. From what I’ve read it seems that the new Dodge was destined for the newest Cummins, but the whole bankruptcy thing changed all that. So I understand that Fiat chose to put their engine in the new Dodge because they already owned them both; is that right? It seems a smart move on Nissan’s part to jump on the chance to put a Cummins in their new truck.

    My wish has always been to get a 1500 sized truck with a diesel engine. I have never desired to own a big 2500 series 4×4 truck just to get the diesel engine. My driving habits tell me that the new Dodge is the way to go. I want good fuel mileage, the ability to put something in the bed if I need to, and durability. It’s just hard to overlook the fact that with my driving habits I should also be able to get good fuel economy with the Nissan/Cummins.

    The good thing is that I won’t be seriously shopping for a few years; so that will give both time to establish some history and proven statistics.

  24. Lee

    Jun 21, 2014 at 10:30 am

    the 3.0l diesel has been in Europe for at least 7 years…its in NO WAY a new engine or unproven technology…

  25. Bayram

    Jun 23, 2014 at 6:48 am

    just finish my project installing2001 nissan ud 1400 diesel fd46ta U2 into 1996 dodge ram 2500 Laramie long bed wondering what mileage i will get

  26. davey

    Jul 13, 2014 at 3:19 pm

    cumins 5.0 v8 td engine found in the 2015 Titan will have 342hp and 572 trq 25 mpg
    while that is awesome
    I rather have a frontier pro 4x with a 2.8 cumins with 35 mpg

  27. Anonymous

    Jul 14, 2014 at 12:53 pm

    My 07 crew cab titan has 108,000 miles and I pull 9,000 lbs a few times a year. Pulling this load I still get 8 mpg. I push it very hard anytime I drive it. The only thing I’ve done to it is a battery and tires. I’m a nissan guy and won’t look at a dodge by any means. I just hope I can afford the new titan when it gets here. Has anyone heard of a price range for the new titan?

  28. Anonymous

    Jul 21, 2014 at 8:23 pm

    What about the Toyota four cylinder 3.0L Turbo Diesel found in the Hilux, seems to be available everywhere but North America

  29. Iowa farm boy

    Jul 22, 2014 at 10:06 pm

    I’ve had dodges, fords, & Chevys. Bought a new Titan in 2011 & haven’t looked back. No warranty work on this truck for anything! Quiet, rides great, and their v8 is built like a diesel, maximum torque @ 1900 rpm’s, not 5000 rpm’s like American trucks. Sure the interior needs updated and it gets 18 mph at best, but I buy a truck to use it for a truck. It will be interesting to see how the new diesel does!

  30. Russell

    Jul 29, 2014 at 2:07 am

    Just want to address a few things mentioned on this thread:

    1. The trannys that were eaten up by the Cummins were the automatics built in-house by Mopar on the Rams from the early-90’s through the early- to mid-2000’s. Couldn’t handle the torque to begin with, but also suffered from poor build quality. But when Dodge introduced the 6.7L Cummins that crapped the bed, they also redesigned their transmissions. Mopar’s automatic trannys were not only sturdier, but also began seeing better quality control, so the transmission argument is long dead and gone. Also, the 8-speed in the current Rams isn’t even a Mopar. It’s a ZF.

    2. Bob, wrong on almost all counts except Fiat buying Dodge and Toyota possibly partering with Cummins. Most 3/4 tons can’t even fifth wheel/gooseneck 18k pounds, much less bumper pull. Also, Chrysler’s relationship with VM Motori (the manufacturer of the 3.0L EcoDiesel) goes MUCH further back than Fiat’s relationship with Chrysler. VM began producing diesels for Chrysler’s European cars as far back as the 90’s. I know the Jeep Wranglers have optioned VM’s 2.8L four cylinder diesel into their European models dating back to the 2007 redesign. It wasn’t until late last year that Fiat completed their 100% acquisition of VM. They purchased the first half from Penske Racing, the second from General Motors. I know. Both were very Italian. Before being purchased by Penske (which eventually sold half their ownership to GM), VM was wholly owned by Detroit Diesel. Which, at the time, was owned by DaimlerChrysler.

    3. Most diesels will naturally run longer than gasoline counterparts because of the combustion process. Back when I was in commercial fleet sales, 83% of Isuzu diesels were rated to go 300k miles in extreme stop-and-go conditions without any major overhauls. Our Nissan UD’s weren’t much different. I’d imagine most of the diesels produced today would be well above the 60% mark. No gasoline engine ever built has approached those kinds of numbers, and gas engines built today are FAR more well-built and reliable than ever before. But they just can’t touch the longevity of a diesel primarily because of the combustion process.

    The fact that they come with an iron block that weighs twice as much doesn’t hurt, either.

    4. A lot of posters have obviously towed plenty. The ones asking why anyone would want to tow 12k pounds with a half ton have learned that power isn’t all there is to towing.

    5. Some have knocked the Ram’s quality. Some have said there’s nothing wrong with it. Both are correct. After seeing plenty of early-2000’s Rams get traded in. The insides look and feel terrible. Door handles falling off, entire dashes that are barely hanging on, and that was only after 150k miles or so. Interior and exterior quality was just absolutely terrible. Far and away the worst of all the truck manufacturers. BUT (as mentioned) those 5.9L Cummins were bulletproof and they boasted the strongest front and rear ends on the market. Furthermore, my friends who are still around trucks tell me that the redesign they did about five years ago improved the quality of the Ram quite a bit to where it’s every bit as good as the other four.

    7. Brian, believe it or not Nissan’s getting ready to dance with the HD’s. As a matter of fact, they already rolled out the platform and it’s been on the road for two years.
    http://www.nissancommercialvehicles.com/nv-cargo/?next=header.vehicles.postcard.vlp.button

    They’ve been planning this since they were working with Dodge to develop the next-gen Titan and never gave up on it. Though I have no clue where they currently are in regards to moving forward, they were intent on moving forward after refining the chassis and powertrain (that 5.0L Cummins had been kicked around for a while) as of two years ago.

  31. RZep

    Aug 1, 2014 at 8:07 pm

    The Titan is going to be more 3/4 ton than 1/2 ton. I talked to few people who seen it. 7speed auto and close to 15000lbs towing. the gas V8 is going to be 1/2 ton with the 5.6L out of Infiniti QX80.

  32. Canadian Redneck

    Aug 4, 2014 at 11:24 am

    I hope Nissan puts the diesel in their ” Titan” VAN.
    That could revolutionize the RV industry for class B & C!

  33. Anonymous

    Aug 8, 2014 at 2:39 am

    cummings?? seriously?? I have looked at so many dealerships selling trucks and as soon as I see the word “cummings” I turn and walk away. How can you try and sell a product and not even spell it right. That means to me that you have no idea of the product that you are trying to sell on your lot. I am an avid CUMMINS man. I have hauled countless miles behind the wheel of a CUMMINS and would not have it any other way.

  34. Rocky

    Aug 8, 2014 at 4:33 am

    I have the VM 2.8 in my 2005 Jeep Liberty. I average above 30MPG with tuning. The 3.0 is a known and proven design. A diesel has never been available in a Ram 1500 and this engine is an obvious choice for this model (same as was available in the 2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee). Nissan’s decision to use the Cummins in a truck not designed for its appropriate rating would be its swan song if not for the fact that most users will never actually push its design limits. This will be interesting… Where’s my popcorn?

    • Cecil

      May 2, 2015 at 1:08 pm

      “with tuning”?
      How much was that?
      What did you get before you tuned?
      Will you ever see the money spent on tuning being returned in the better fuel economy?

  35. Jimbo

    Aug 9, 2014 at 10:15 pm

    This is a no brainer………. There is no way possible Mopar can come anywhere close to Nissan quality…………. Period!!!

  36. Cecil

    Aug 11, 2014 at 4:23 pm

    The one thing I find missing from any of these posts is the cost of ownership. When you run a vehicle for two or 300,000 km’s, which a person has to do to justify the high cost of a pick up, then the cost of ownership namely, the repairs, are critical.
    There are two things I would like to address:
    1. The Titan is a completely new chassis. This will require a couple of years to see how well it’s going to stand up.
    2. Dodge, despite their increase in better quality control, to me is still an iffy proposition.
    Most imports seem to have a much better than average reliability rating for almost all of their components, save for the odd bad model but very few. Overall, if you check the consumer reports, you will see that all three of the big truck makers in North America have worse than average repair incidents for their four-wheel-drive systems. If you cannot make a four-wheel-drive system that is reliable year after year like the Audi Quattro system, then you have no business being in the truck business.

  37. brett

    Aug 19, 2014 at 6:17 am

    I live in australia and drive a nissan navara (frontier). It is powered by a 3.0L v6 renault engine and 7 speed auto.240 hp, 420 lbft tows 6750 lbs ,gets 25mpg around town , 32mpg on the highway and 17 mpg towing my race bike trailer (4500lbs) at 70mph.Doesn’t use oil ,reliabilty and quality have been very very good, I’ve done 60000 miles in 3 years.

  38. Anonymous

    Aug 23, 2014 at 8:11 am

    Just wondering why Dodge didn’t lop a few cylinders off the proven 6.7 for the half-ton market.

    • K.W.

      Sep 8, 2014 at 1:23 pm

      Because Dodge doesn’t make the diesel engine in their trucks (2500+). Cummins does. They (Cummins) did a similar thing when they made the 4BT. They took the the parent engine, a 6BT, and loped off 2 cylinders to get that motor. For its size (3.9L) it makes incredible amounts of horsepower and torque. There are quite a few people doing engine swaps into Jeep Wranglers for mudding and rock-crawling. Look them up on youtube. they are pretty sweet!

    • JoBlow

      Dec 11, 2014 at 9:17 pm

      Cummins already make a 4 cyl off the 6.7 inline 6. The inline 6 name is 6bt but a 4 bt which is a shortened block is available in other product like the cube van or industrial market.

  39. Anonymous

    Aug 23, 2014 at 8:22 am

    Just wondering why Dodge didn’t lop off 2 or 3 cylinders from the 6.7 for the half-ton market.

    • Brandon

      Sep 12, 2014 at 5:50 pm

      They do. A 2.8l (which is being tested in the Nissan frontier) and a 3.3 or 3.8l I think?

  40. JCGC

    Aug 26, 2014 at 7:36 pm

    i have always driven a 1/2 ton Chevy. My business has grown and now I need a 3/4 ton to haul an 18′ construction tool trailer. I purchased an 09 GMC. with a 6.0. wow the power! But the mileage is killing my bottom line. I only pull the trailer about once a week from job to job. the rest of the time I make runs to the lumber yard and to look at jobs. I get 12mpg at best when empty. I am having trouble finding a salesman that will sell me a truck that best fits my needs. so I am reaching out to you guys for advice.

    • Anonymous

      Aug 31, 2014 at 8:08 pm

      look at making your own Bio-mas fuel or park the truck until it’s needed to pull! Find yourself a cheep well cared for small van to run you daily shopping trips around town! Spend you hard earned funds on a Nice Fusion Energi Plug-In Hybrid for the Business / Family Trips…. Then invest the greens into your home garden!

  41. P7489AFk

    Sep 6, 2014 at 7:41 am

    Do you need a 3/4 ton pickup truck or a 3/4 ton vehicle? A Mercedes Benz Sprinter cab/ chassis with a truck bed would be a highly efficient choices (especially with the twin-turbo 4 cylinder engine)

    http://www.mbsprinterusa.com/build-and-equip/cab-chassis#byoPowertrain;

    http://www.trucktrend.com/roadtests/van/163_1305_2014_mercedes_benz_sprinter_t5_first_look/?__federated=1

  42. Brandon

    Sep 12, 2014 at 5:46 pm

    Ram didn’t need another heavy duty engine. Cummins already supplies one to them. Nissan on the other hand does not have a heavy duty. Now they do. Sort of…. 550 ft lbs in a half ton might as well be heavy duty. Rams need for great fuel mileage is this biggest point here. They have 30,000 lb tow capacity monster already. And not at a ridiculous price difference than the ecodiesel. It’s strictly a business decision with demand and what each respective manufacturer already supplies.

  43. eleventhknight

    Sep 15, 2014 at 7:16 pm

    I love my chipped gas powered Nissan. I have owned all the major 3 .but this chip powered 2011 Nissan is BOSS .. I tow 3 to 7 000 lbs every day. it is awesome.. an when trailer is dropped it will leap.. at green lights. avg mpg. 14 – 17 with trailer (gas) .

  44. UK

    Sep 19, 2014 at 3:02 pm

    No way would I want a puny 3lt in a 1500 Ram, just not enough motor for that truck unless you’re just running around town empty and don’t intend to tow anything. If they had fitted the 5lt cummins I would have bought one but now I’ll be buying a Titan, no question. All that talk from them about fuel economy is just a cheap trick to try to sell there little Fiat engines, if anyone really tries to work it they’ll find out how lame it is, what the fuel economy is then and how long it doesn’t last!
    A 3lt Ram is the perfect truck if you’re the all hat and no horse type!

  45. UK

    Sep 19, 2014 at 3:09 pm

    John Meise what do you know anyhow you’re comments are worth nothing.

  46. Jg

    Sep 20, 2014 at 12:08 pm

    The ram has a 8 speed automatic backed behind that 3.0 so with proper gearing being split more than 6 times the 420lb ft of torque should be plenty to haul what ever load you should be safely hauling on a daily. Don’t get me wrong I love cummins and will be test driving the nissan a probably waiting for it I the 2016 toyota but the v8 cummins hasn’t been tested nearly as much as the 5.9 straight six they have made whether it was the 12 or 24 valve. They are new to the v8 game and I don’t trust it as much hopefully they will be awesome but I would like to see to believe.

  47. Bryan

    Sep 25, 2014 at 3:14 pm

    Your #’s don’t add up. The Titan has 25% more HP, 20% more torque, 30% more towing capacity and only gives up 17% of fuel efficiency. #’s don’t lie. Titan wins.

  48. Ryan Hall

    Oct 10, 2014 at 12:36 pm

    My 2000 Dodge Ram 2500 2WD with 5.9l Cummins gets 25 mpg highway and it weighs 6300lbs! 235hp/460 ft-lb stock. Back when diesels were made right; no emissions crap!

  49. fanatic

    Oct 10, 2014 at 3:32 pm

    I can’t wait to try to fit one of these cummins v8s in my 05 f150 show truck!

  50. DrLou

    Oct 27, 2014 at 4:18 pm

    John: While I respect your 2014 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel preference over the 2015 Nissan Titan Cummins diesel, you have not presented a case that for the Ram diesel being better than the Nissan diesel. But how can with being able to test one vehicle against the other. If you are making your selection based on styling, then yeah the Ram 1500 is prettier. But if your using more torque to make your selection, then Nissan wins. When it comes to working trucks, function is more important than looks.

  51. Roger

    Oct 29, 2014 at 2:51 pm

    I have a 2014 ecodiesel loaded I pull 26 ft. camper about 7000 lbs i average 14.2 at 70 mph when empty I average 29 to 30 mpg at 72 mph I have air ride and love it if theirs a better truck out their I have not seen it yet.

    • Jug

      Aug 3, 2015 at 12:43 am

      There you go!
      My sentiments exactly!
      My experience with with Nissan certainly hasn’t compared to most here.
      Been Ford for years and years, but that 2011 Ecoboost sucked big time.
      Said that I would never buy another Dodge, way back in 1958, but driving more than two of these Ecodiesels, I had to have one.

      Think it’s going to compare to my ’99 F250, 15 years and 2 hundred+ K.

  52. PDav

    Dec 12, 2014 at 12:26 pm

    Some of you are simply bias, I have had Dodge, Chevy, Nissan and HANDS DOWN, the Nissan has better quality. However the engines need an upgrade and this is the ticket. Both my Dodge and Chevy had so many problems, Power windows not working, power locks, brakes, TRANSMISSION, differential, rear mains,,,,, and on and on. Nissans just builds a better product.

  53. Jack

    Dec 18, 2014 at 1:42 pm

    Do you figure in the cost of timing belt replacement for the VM 3.0 every 100,000 miles?

  54. Fix It Again Today

    Aug 11, 2015 at 5:04 pm

    One word….FIAT.

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